Heart of the Flathead

Planning Kalispell's Future

• David Wigginton • Episode 3

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In this eye-opening episode of Heart of the Flathead, PJ Sorensen of the Kalispell Planning Department offers a behind-the-scenes look at how neighborhoods take shape and development decisions are made. A Kalispell resident since childhood, PJ brings both personal and professional insight to the complex, years-long process that guides growth in the valley. From navigating regulations to coordinating public hearings and staff reports, he describes the planning department as “a point guard,” orchestrating collaboration across city functions to turn vision into reality.

The conversation dives into Montana’s new Land Use Planning Act and the pressure to create 15,000 new housing units over the next decade. PJ shares how the city is working to balance faster development with community values, all while ensuring Kalispell remains a place where residents of all ages and incomes can thrive. Whether you're a longtime local or a new arrival, this episode is a must-listen for understanding the forces shaping the Flathead’s future.

Heart of the Flathead is brought to you by:

Heart of the Flathead, is produced by David Wigginton, in partnership with LeftBrainRightBrain Marketing. Listeners can find the podcast online at HeartoftheFlathead.com and LeftBrainRightBrain Marketing at lbrbm.com. The content for Heart of the Flathead podcasts and any show notes and transcripts are copyrighted by David Wigginton. All rights are reserved. Reproduction and rebroadcasting, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited without written permission. Contact David Wigginton by clicking the Send Us a Text link at the top of the episode description.

Disclaimer

The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or production team. Appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement of any goods, services, or opinions discussed. This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered professional, legal, medical, or financial advice. Always consult a qualified professional before making decisions based on the content of this show.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Heart of the Flathead, where we sit down with the changemakers, the unsung heroes and everyday folks who give this place its pulse. If you live here, love here or just want to know what makes Kalispell and the Valley tick, you're in the right place. And now here's your host, dave Wiginton.

Speaker 2:

Welcome everybody to the Heart of the Flathead. I'm excited to have our guest today, PJ Sorensen of the City of Kalispell Planning Department. Pj, welcome to the Heart of the Flathead. Thank you, Appreciate you having me on? Yeah, great. Obviously, the Planning Department has been an extremely important part of the City of Kalispell that's grown tremendously over the past five to 10 years, and so we've got a lot to cover today and I think that our listeners will be excited to hear some of the things you have to say and interested in some of the topics that we're going to cover today. But typically when we start this podcast, we really want to get a feel for who the guest is and we want to understand where they're from, maybe a little bit about their life's journey and how they've gotten to where they are now. So if you want to go ahead and start there, that'd be a great place for us to get going today.

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, I grew up here in Kalispell, graduated from Flathead High School, moved here when I was eight years old from Alaska. We lived up there. Dad was a civil engineer in the Forest Service. We bounced around a little bit, but once we got to Kalispell we pretty much stayed here. Now, after I graduated, I went off to school at Willamette in Oregon since Salem Oregon, was there for undergrad and law school both, and after graduating law school came back to Kalispell, practiced locally for a couple years and then switched over to city planning.

Speaker 2:

At that point, so what kind of law did you?

Speaker 3:

practice. It was really general practice. I was an associate at a firm here and did a lot of family law, but also a little bit of taxation and a little bit of property law and just a mix of different things.

Speaker 2:

What was the motivating force that caused you to cross the aisle from lawyer to city planner?

Speaker 3:

So you know, when I went to law school I was never really with the idea of, you know, a practicing attorney being involved in litigation and so forth. I was always a lot more interested in property issues and government issues. My undergrad was in political science, so I've always been fascinated with the political process and history and how all that comes together. So it seemed like a good step and you know, I wasn't necessarily interested in doing it forever, but got involved in it and really liked it and it was a good fit for me what, from your legal background, do you think has helped you in your current position?

Speaker 3:

You know a lot of it is just being able to get into and parse through and understand different regulations that are out there. There's a lot of different things that come into play when you're talking about property development through the building permit process, subdivisions, growth policies. You need to understand federal regulations. You know when you're looking at, say, you know, floodplain regulations We've worked with FEMA extensively over the years when it comes to floodplain and other issues, certainly with state statutes and being able to run through those and ensuring that you're in compliance with all of the not just your local rules, but state and federal rules to be able to understand the legal precedent and how you should approach different projects. So I think it's been invaluable in those terms.

Speaker 2:

There's probably a lot of overlap or necessary law background to be able to understand some of the documents and ordinances that you mentioned and deal with on a daily basis. Yeah, exactly so you moved here from Alaska when you were eight. Have you ever been back to Alaska?

Speaker 3:

I've been back a few times. So did one cruise up there? But there's a couple of times we went back up and stayed with some of the friends that we had up there and yeah, it's an interesting place. It rains a lot up there. We've got about 170 inches a year, which is pretty crazy. But it was a real interesting place to grow up and when I was down there, which was in the 70s, it was remote enough that you couldn't even watch the Super Bowl live. They had to ship the tape up on the ferry and you watched it the next day.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that's interesting. So there seems to be a lot of overlap between at least Northwest Montana and Alaska. I find people that go in back and forth between the two places as having similar appeal, I guess from the outdoor standpoint and I guess potentially the climate, although it sounds like there's a lot more rain there than there is here in the Flathead. So what year did you graduate Flathead High School? In 89. And do you still participate? You go to football games, homecomings, things like that.

Speaker 3:

Well, not homecoming, but you know the reunions around here for sure. My kids were both heavily involved in the local schools, you know, in sports and other things. So, yeah, love going to the local football games, love going across town. And part of it is, you know, being local, that you run into people that you graduated with or went to school with all the time and that's part of what I really love about being in Kalispell and working in Kalispell.

Speaker 2:

So it's definitely a tight-knit community and it's good to maintain those lifelong connections. They definitely make life fun and interesting day in and day out. You never know who you're going to come across, I guess, when you're going about your day. Well, let's get back to the planning department here. So, as you think about what the planning department does, one of the things that we're trying to draw out in this podcast is how these different organizations and these different groups, what their place is or their role is in the community and how they contribute to the community overall. And I know people that are active in government, going to city council meetings and things like that. They're going to understand the planning department, but for the layperson they may not fully understand what the planning department does unless they've had an experience with the planning department. So maybe you can shed some light on that for our listeners today.

Speaker 3:

Okay, you know, in a lot of ways I see our role kind of as a point guard on a basketball team and that you know you really need to understand the whole process what everybody's role is. You need to know. You know when you need to reach out to, say, the public works department, because they're dealing with the public infrastructure, the streets, water, sewer, storm, those sorts of issues. You know I'm not an expert in those, but the engineers over there are and being able to reach out to them and whether it's the fire department or parks department or however that comes together. So we do a lot of coordination with the other departments. When a project comes in say we've got a subdivision or something like that that comes in, our department is the one that processes that. You know we'll send out the public notice, prepare staff reports, conduct the public hearing, so we make the presentations to the planning commission and city council. But really we're just kind of the focal point where we're bringing all that together and kind of coordinating all these different roles that the city has.

Speaker 2:

Got it. Yeah, playing point guard is a pretty demanding position on a basketball court, so I can imagine you guys are under I don't want to say pressure, but maybe fire quite a bit to make sure you're on the ball and leading the charge in the way it needs to be led. What kind of challenges do you run into in the planning department? We've had a lot of growth here in Kalispell. There's been a lot of expansion and obviously a lot of changes, and so what are some of the challenges that the planning department runs to on a regular basis?

Speaker 3:

no-transcript sort of thing, and a lot of that work goes on years before you see a subdivision come in front of city council or you see specific decisions being made in that regard at that level. Just a lot of background that's in there. When somebody somebody comes in, you know there's been thought that's put into, you know where utilities can expand to and should expand to and I think one of the challenges is staying on top of that. But I do think you know our city council, our planning commission, all the departments have done a really good job of having foresight in that area and there's just so much work that goes into all of those decisions before it's really kind of out there for the public in terms of the council meeting.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you could close something up for me. I always wondered you know so, when these developments of housing get announced? When they do get announced, are they moving forward at that point? Or is that more of just hey, they're going before their hearing or whatever? They need to get approval and maybe they still need to get funding or something like that? How do we interpret the announcement of a new housing development?

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, I guess it kind of depends upon what you mean by an announcement on that. But you know, usually when it first gets out there, you know starts getting in the paper. You know we send out a public notice. You know the notices go out within 150 feet. You know that's what state law says of the property as well as in the legal notices in the paper. But that kind of kicks off the public process and you know people can submit public comments. They, you know whether it's in writing or coming in and talking to us, submitting it by email or coming to the public hearing and doing it in person. But all those comments kind of come in as part of that process and that's when people really start seeing what potentially could be out there. But that's just the start of the process.

Speaker 3:

It goes through the planning commission makes a recommendation based on the public hearing and the staff presentation and the application materials that come in, which typically involve a traffic impact study, often a geotech report, environmental statement, a number of other things, depending upon the specifics of what that is. Then the planning commission forwards that recommendation to city council and then city council makes that decision and through that process you know certain conditions might be placed on the property. Typically there's a number of conditions that come on there. Some are standard and some are particular to a project and where it sits. But as it goes through, typically staff would put together the original staff report with the proposed conditions. Planning commission, after hearing everything, can modify those conditions. They can add some, take them away or amend what's in there and then city council can do the same thing at the end. And again, that's all based on the public process and the input and just some of the discussion as it gets out there into the public forum.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so then, if I understand that right, what you're saying is that the public process is, or the beginning of the public process is the beginning of a larger process, and they've got to go through several iterations for lack of a better term to get to, I guess, the finish line, to where they can actually put shovels in the ground and start the project Is that right, right, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 3:

And they still need to go out and they need to do their specific engineering design and design the water mains and the roads and all the engineering that kind of comes into play on that. So they still have to work through our public works department to get those engineering approval before they go out and start developing, say, a subdivision, and accepted by the city, city council still needs to approve a final plat before there's actually lots there that a developer could sell and you could get a building permit and put a house on. So it takes a while when you're really looking at the full process for a development to go from a concept to a reality.

Speaker 2:

So it's interesting and it's a lot more involved, I think, than the average lay person like myself understands. So you guys are pretty neck deep in this land use plan that's going on. There's this ordinance that the state passed that requires, I think, all cities to get their land use plans revised in accordance with new requirements by next year. Tell us what is a land use plan and kind of what is the city doing at this point with respect to its own land use plan? You?

Speaker 3:

know. First of all I'd say you know it's what you're referring to is also known as Montana Land Use Planning Act, or people call it. You know Senate Bill 382, because that was the designation when it went through. You know it specified 10 specific cities, which include Kalispell and Whitefish and Columbia Falls, that needed to adopt kind of a new version of what we already had. So we had what was called a growth policy before and now it's the land use plan. Both of those situations are really similar. There are certain things that are updated in that there's more of a focus on housing.

Speaker 3:

But what a land use plan is is really a policy document. So it's not a regulation itself, but it gives guidance to staff and to planning commission and to council as they're making land use decisions. So if somebody comes in with a subdivision that they want to put out on the edge of the city, for example, we look at our land use map and it would say well, how dense should this be? Should it allow apartments? Should it just be? Should this be? Should it allow apartments? Should it just be larger, single family, should it allow commercial or neighborhood commercial involved in it? And then we use that land use plan to then guide those decisions and to say what's appropriate in that area. And then it gets into a little bit more depth too. We've got chapters on infrastructure and local services, and that's where we incorporate in the what are called facility plans for water and sewer, and so that's the plans out there that the engineers put together on how our different systems should develop.

Speaker 2:

So what is the difference then, I guess and maybe you mentioned this, but I didn't catch it between the growth policy and the land use plan? It sounds like they're trying to do the same thing. It's just the name change.

Speaker 3:

Well, there's two things that were major changes under this Land Use Planning Act, and part of it has to do with the plan itself and part of it is how it gets implemented. So the part that really changes the plan itself, adopted by the state legislature, really kind of grew out of the housing task force at the state level and trying to look at what was creating the issues of, you know, lack of housing and lack of affordable housing and attainable housing that was out there and try to then implement things that would help alleviate that situation on a statewide level. And so a focus on housing became a core part of this new land use plan, not that it wasn't part of the growth policy before, but there's certain things that we really had to zero in on as part of that. One of the aspects is there was 14 housing strategies and the cities have to adopt at least five of those. So it'd be say, adding accessory dwelling units or decreasing what your lot sizes are, or making apartments permitted uses, and I said there's a range of 14 of them that the city would ultimately need to adopt as part of that plan.

Speaker 3:

So those are the major changes in the plan itself. The really controversial part is that when you get once you're under that plan and you get to site-specific development so a subdivision or conditional use permit, say for an apartment building, you wouldn't have public hearings on those anymore. So those would be administrative decisions that staff would look at and say, yep, it's in compliance at least substantial compliance with the land use plan. It meets our subdivision criteria or our zoning criteria. We would do an administrative approval instead of taking that to council, and that's one of the things that is still subject to some litigation out there. So I'm not sure what the final look of that is going to be, but it's definitely the most controversial part of that on a statewide basis.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

So what is the intent of that? I mean, are they trying to eliminate public comment, or why do they want to just move it to the administrative approval process versus the public hearing?

Speaker 3:

I think part of it was streamlining the process. You know everybody talks about red tape right and trying to eliminate that. I think part of it was trying to get some of the emotional reaction out of land use decisions. Basically it's the state saying if it meets all of your rules and it's somebody's, it's still a private property type of an issue. They own the property and want to develop it in a certain way that's in compliance with all the applicable rules that are out there. Then they should be able to move forward with that and not have kind of an emotional reaction that can be inconsistent. You know you may have that sort of reaction with one project and not another and that creates a difference on how you wind up approaching potential developments out there. So I think it was, you know, twofold at least on what they were doing.

Speaker 2:

Right? Well, we certainly love our land in Montana, so I'm sure it's going to continue to be a contentious issue until they get it finalized, even after then maybe. But how would you? I mean along those lines? Then you talk about housing with this bill and it's kind of the primary focus, one of the primary focuses. How would you characterize the housing situation in Califom and we've heard, you know, housing shortages. People can't lack of affordability. But from a professional standpoint or from a planner standpoint, what? How do you look at it and how would you communicate that to say, an outsider?

Speaker 3:

Well, you know I think we've made advances in that situation. You know it wasn't that long ago that we had vacancy rates of less than 1% in the rental market, which is not really a sustainable type of a thing. There was a housing study that was done through the University of Montana, I think it was in 22, that said that. You know, over 10 years we needed 15,000 housing units in the flathead just to keep pace with the growth. And I think people need to understand growth isn't just somebody moving to town from out of the area, although that's a component of it, you know. It's also our kids, you know, graduating from high school and looking for jobs. You know there's all sorts of people I know that have got their kids living in the basement because even if they have good jobs here, they can't afford the bottom of the market, and that's an issue. You know, if we want to have a sustainable community in the long term, you want your kids to be able to grow up and stay here. So I think they get into trying to figure out their budget on actual construction. Sometimes they don't happen, but you know there's an inventory of entitled units that are out there too, but still you need to keep pace with that. You know it's a growing community.

Speaker 3:

Like I said, even if people aren't moving in from out of the area, it's still a growing community that you need to account for.

Speaker 3:

And I think that there's some pent-up demand there as well, just because our market, our housing market, is kind of outpacing our labor market in terms of wages, especially for people that are getting started, and there's a lot of demand out there that just can't get into the bottom of the market.

Speaker 3:

And so you know we've tried to encourage condominiums in some situations and you know there's at least one larger project on the north end of town that is trying to do just that with the mixed-use project and doing condominiums on both ends of the market so new people can get into those and it's more affordable and kind of get their foot into the housing market in terms of ownership. But also on the back end of the market, where people are, you know, aging, they've got the kids moving out, you know don't necessarily want to have, you know, a big yard to maintain and can get into a situation like that too. So you know, I think, getting creative you know both on, you know on the city side, but you know, also on the development side as to different products that are out there. I think would continue to help with that.

Speaker 2:

So what is the developer appetite for something like that, the condo type of situation?

Speaker 3:

I think some are interested in it. I think that there's some little bumps in terms of some of the legalities out there and it impacts the financing that they can get.

Speaker 2:

And that's had an impact on some of running into that may limit their ability or their desire to build new housing.

Speaker 3:

Well, to build new housing in general, you know it's there's a lot of different factors that go in and I think that that was something that came out of the there was a parent in the housing task force report that they did as well, because you know it's. You know a component of it would be, you know, working through government regulation. But a big component is cost of supplies. You know, I've known some developers that have just bought trucks and shipped in supplies from out of state just because they couldn't get to anything affordably in the general area.

Speaker 3:

Labor supply is a difficult thing. You know, like I said, even if we've got 5,000 housing units that the city has approved and are sitting there, they just need to pull a building permit and get going. There's only so many plumbers and electricians and framers that you can employ at one time. So you know the labor market in terms of workers, to actually get out there and construct the buildings is something that people need to work through as well. Financing rates being higher right now is certainly an issue. I think it's gotten better. But going back to supply, you know, right after COVID there was especially like with electrical panels and so forth there were some major apartment projects that got mothballed, that was halfway under construction, got mothballed for six months just because they couldn't get electrical panels in because of the limitations just nationwide on what was going on there. I've experienced that, okay, yeah, so no surprise for you, yeah absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

Obviously, housing is a big part of any community and it's been a bit of a pressure point in ours. But transitioning then from that to just overall, when you look at the Flathead now from an individual, as a citizen as being from here, but also as a city planner, what does a better and stronger future for our community look like?

Speaker 3:

for you. Well, I think the key is you need to make sure that there's a place for everyone and I think that you need to make sure that you provide for a range of needs that are out there. You know a full range of. You know, regardless of what your income is, what your age is, certainly you know creating a community where people can age in place is really vital. Making sure that you know accessibility issues, with ADA issues, are addressed, but you know that's part of having a community is that you know we should have open arms for everybody in here and there should be a place for them. You know, certainly housing being a major component of that, but just being part of the community as a whole. And for me personally, I think one of the important things is you know really. You know as we get more technological and the way that we live is really as we get more technological and the way that we live, I think preserving and developing personal connections is really important and I sure hope we don't lose sight of that.

Speaker 2:

So I love that. I love the open arms concept too. Welcome everybody in and try and accommodate everybody as much as we can. Well, PJ, we're gonna transition to our Flathead Five questions that we ask all our guests and before I do that, thank you for being here today and for sharing so much information with us. So these are just rapid fire questions that we'll jump into and short one word or one sentence answers are fine. So what's your favorite hidden gem in the community?

Speaker 3:

I really think it's the people gem in the community. I really think it's the people. I just love the fact, especially since I grew up here, that I can walk down the street and I can see my old coach or walk into a bar and bartender would have my drink sitting out before I say anything, and that's my favorite hidden gem. Chris or Bobcat this is riding the fence, but it's both. I didn't go to either one. I had one of my kids go to U of M and one go to MSU and what I would love more than anything is for them both to be undefeated and go into the Cat Grizz game and then have the Grizzlies win.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, all right. What's your favorite outdoor activity in the Valley?

Speaker 3:

Definitely skiing. You know, since I grew up here I still call it Big Mountain. But getting up there on the mountain in the winter, especially on an inversion day, there's nothing like that I agree with that?

Speaker 2:

What do you know today that you wish you knew when you started out?

Speaker 3:

That nobody's perfect and that it's okay to rely on others, just the same way that I'd want them to be able to know they could rely on me.

Speaker 2:

That is wisdom right there. Know they could rely on me. That is wisdom right there. So when your story's over the book is written, what do you want? The one or two sentence review on your book to be.

Speaker 3:

I'm hoping that it would say something along the lines that he was an intelligent, creative thinker who loved his kids, cared for his friends, acted with integrity and helped build a better community.

Speaker 2:

PJ, again I want to thank you so much for being on Heart of the Flathead today. This is obviously a timely episode, with the land use plan process and happening right now, but also just housing and land in general is a big deal here. So thank you for sharing so much information with us and for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be with us today.

Speaker 3:

We really appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. And again, I appreciate the opportunity and I think you're doing a great job with the podcast. Thanks, pj, all right.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening to this episode of heart of the flathead. We'd love to hear your thoughts about today's episode and the podcast in general. You can listen at heartoftheflatheadcom or wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can reach David via the contact page at heartoftheflatheadcom or by clicking on the send us feedback link at the top of the episode description and your favorite podcast app. Heart of the Flathead is produced by David Wiginton in partnership with Left Brain, right Brain Marketing. Listeners can find the podcast online at heartoftheflatheadcom and leftbrainrightbrainmarketing at lbrbmcom.

Speaker 1:

The content for Heart of the Flathead podcasts and any show notes and transcripts are copyrighted by David Wiginton, all rights reserved. Reproduction and rebroadcasting in whole or in part is strictly prohibited without written permission. Contact David Wiginton at heartoftheflatheadcom with your request. The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or the production team. Appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement of any goods, services or opinions discussed. The podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered professional legal, medical or financial advice. Always consult a qualified professional before making decisions based on the content of this show.